Interview with Alicja Wancerz–Gluza – co-founder of one of the oldest Polish non-governmental organizations Fundacja Ośrodka KARTA (The KARTA Center Foundation), activist of the teachers’ “Solidarity” (Niezależny Samorządny Związek Zawodowy “Solidarność” – Independent Self-Governing Trade Union “Solidarity”); co-founder, editor, publisher and printer of the underground newspaper “KARTA” during martial law period (1981–83) in Poland; up to this day coordinator of many projects at The KARTA Center.

- Forty years ago, on December 13, 1981, Poland's communist government imposed martial law to stifle the “Solidarity” opposition movement, which united millions of citizens. How did the people react to the government's and parliament's decision to restrict human rights at that time?

The reaction to these events was neither uniform nor collective and did not occur immediately. Notably, martial law was introduced during a weekend, on the night between Saturday and Sunday, amid winter, with severe frost. All forms of communication—telephone, radio, and television—were immediately cut off. Public transportation, including intercity trains, trams, and buses, was suspended. The announcement of martial law was broadcast on television in the morning and was the sole content repeatedly aired on TV.

Late in the evening of December 12, military transport vehicles were observed moving along the roads. That night, militia forces launched attacks on the offices and various structures associated with "Solidarity". Information about the unfolding events spread rapidly by word of mouth, with some individuals even shouting warnings from their balconies. During the night of December 12-13, approximately 10,000 people were arrested and interned, often involving the forced entry into the apartments of "Solidarność" activists.

On Monday, December 14, occupational strikes commenced in numerous workplaces, factories, and mines. In locations with shift work, such as mines and steel mills, crews who began their shifts on the night of December 12-13 remained on site, turning these areas into key points of resistance.

On December 16, 1981, during the suppression of the strike at the Wujek Coal Mine in Katowice, militia forces employed firearms. This resulted in the deaths of nine miners and numerous injuries. The death of these miners stands as the most significant tragedy of the martial law period.

On December 14, 1981, the longest strike in the post-war mining industry commenced, led by the crews of two coal mines in southern Poland: "Piast" and "Ziemowit." For two weeks, approximately 4,000 workers protested the imposition of martial law, with about half of them persevering until the strike's conclusion. Stories from this period remain vivid, recounting how miners spent several days 650 meters underground as their mining lamps went out. They subsisted on only bread, water, and apples, all the while demonstrating mutual help and solidarity. Concurrently, militia forces made efforts to break the strike.

During this time, the movement for independent information exchange began. Information bulletins and leaflets were created—typewritten, copied, distributed, and scattered throughout city centers. A social movement emerged to hide "Solidarity" activists who had evaded internment or arrest. Eventually, an underground publishing movement was also established. Despite these efforts, the majority of society remained relatively passive. In December 1981, Poland had approximately 38 million citizens, with about 10 million members in the Independent Self-Governing Trade Union "Solidarity." It is estimated that the entire underground movement comprised no more than 100,000 people, representing just 1% of the activists.

- In general, what are your thoughts on the situation when the government and parliament adopt a law that goes against the wishes of the overwhelming majority of citizens? How can the people effectively oppose such a law when the status quo, including power structures and resources, is on the side of the government?

In my view, the natural response to oppression is protest and rebellion. The success of such actions depends largely on the society's ability to self-organize and mobilize as many people as possible. Opinion leaders play a crucial role in this process. They must evaluate the chances of success and the safety of various forms of protest—whether they are open, like marches and demonstrations (as seen in Belarus or Israel), guerrilla tactics (as in Ukraine's Maidan), or secret, such as organizing an underground movement for a prolonged struggle (as was the case in Poland during martial law following the suppression of resistance in striking factories and mines).

Leaders are also responsible for organizing communication channels, assessing the determination of the people, seeking alliances domestically and internationally, and developing diverse strategies of action depending on the evolving situation. Thus, establishing robust leadership structures with contingency plans for replacements in case of repression, and securing resources, are essential. Moreover, it is critical to safely document and archive all actions to preserve the movement's history and lessons learned.

- In 1982, together with a group of friends, you created the underground newspaper “KARTA" devoted to the topic of freedom in a world dominated by dictatorships. Could you describe your underground activities during that period?

During the first three weeks of martial law, a group of friends and I embarked on creating a sociocultural magazine as an alternative to the dominant "Solidarity" activities, with which we had grown disillusioned. We quickly integrated into the emerging underground structures. Our leader, Zbigniew Gluza—who would later become the editor-in-chief of the magazine "KARTA"—had a small car and took on the role of a messenger, distributing information about strikes, government interventions, and other critical updates to the “Information Bulletin “Solidarity”,” which was being developed underground.

My friend and I were responsible for finding apartments to hide people, hold secret editorial meetings, and eventually serve as printing locations. This was a challenging task, relying heavily on personal contacts and a network of supportive individuals. This period tested people's courage and determination, revealing their true commitment to the cause.

After three weeks, when all active protests, such as sit-down strikes, had concluded, we recognized that we were facing a "long march" and needed to prepare accordingly. During a New Year's Eve meeting, we began discussing the concept of a newspaper that would not only provide information but also offer reflections on the situation in which society found itself—an intellectual response to the events.

On January 4, 1982, Zbigniew Gluza and I, along with Katarzyna Madoń, Aldona Jawłowska, and Agata Tuszyńska, founded an independent underground newspaper called "KARTA". The first issue was a single sheet of paper typewritten on both sides, which inspired the magazine's title. The name "KARTA" was also a reference to "Karta '77," a Czech opposition magazine, and to the term “Charta,” found in documents like the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen.

The magazine was initially typewritten in seven copies, as this was the maximum number that could be produced at one time on thin tissue paper. These copies were then distributed to others with a request for further copying and dissemination. For subsequent issues, we employed rudimentary screen-printing techniques to increase the number of copies and expand the newspaper’s pages. Eventually, we began using a mimeograph smuggled from the West to facilitate production.

The next stage involved printing "KARTA" in underground, secret printing houses using professional equipment. This allowed us to produce a thicker, multi-page magazine.

The magazine focused on exploring "freedom in the world of dictatorships," highlighting how people in various repressive regimes around the globe managed to pursue freedom. We featured stories about dissidents from East Germany and Cuba, the "boat people" refugees from Vietnam, the international humanitarian organization "Doctors of the World," and the Catalan singer Luis Llach, among others.

During this period, we also produced our first book, W stanie. Zbiorowy dziennik stanu wojennego ("In a State. A Collective Diary of Martial Law"). This book consisted of chronologically arranged records of people's reactions to martial law and accounts from those released from prisons. It served as valuable preparation for Zbigniew Gluza, who was arrested on March 4, 1985.

- What role do civil activists and their associations play in the struggle for freedom? What lessons can today's freedom fighters learn from the recent past?

As previously noted, leaders must assume pivotal roles. A crucial qualification for effective leadership is the ability to gauge social moods while not overestimating the collective resolve of society. In challenging times, people often prioritize safety and stability.

Activists need to be patient and focus on long-term strategies. It is essential to ensure the safety of key individuals and establish backup plans with secondary and tertiary replacements. Building organizational structures and forging alliances based on previous contacts and experiences are vital. Additionally, maintaining effective communication is crucial—constantly informing the public about ongoing struggles and demonstrating these efforts in various ways can be highly motivating for people.

During martial law, various creative and sometimes even humorous methods were employed to resist and communicate. These included scattering leaflets, interrupting television and radio signals to broadcast "own programs"—even if they were just songs—creating drawings and slogans on pavements, stamping messages on banknotes, and staging humorous happenings that mocked the authorities, such as wearing brooches shaped like resistors.

One notable campaign involved placing candles in windows on the anniversaries of the miners' deaths at the Wujek mine. The goal of these actions was to promote symbolism that signified resistance, solidarity, and mutual understanding.

- What activities is your center engaged in? We know that KARTA has a unique method of storytelling to inform the public about past events, especially the recent past. What makes this method unique, and why did you decide to develop it?

Today, "KARTA" is a historical journal that explores the history of Poland in the 20th and 21st centuries, as well as its relationships with neighboring countries. The journal and the books we publish focus on narratives "from below," capturing the experiences of individual people to reflect a diverse range of perspectives. We aim to present a polyphonic and multi-faceted view of history, including perspectives from all "sides of the barricade," encompassing political, national, and other divides.

In "KARTA", we exclusively publish source materials such as memoirs, diaries, witness accounts, private documents, photographs, press articles, and significant excerpts from official documents. Our books utilize a narrative technique known as chronological assembly of sources. This method involves arranging the most expressive and meaningful fragments of sources in chronological order, creating a mosaic image of historical events.

Historians contribute comments as introductions or epilogues to provide context and explain aspects that might be difficult to understand. However, the core of our publication is the multi-perspective compilation of source documents, which allows readers to draw their conclusions based on the evidence presented.

Synthesizing or analytical texts by historians are inherently influenced by specific perspectives and are typically written "after the fact." These texts often reflect a particular national or communal memory. To truly understand and experience the past, one must engage directly with the voices and images from that era. This direct engagement allows for a more authentic connection to historical events, beyond the interpretations provided by later analyses.

- What role do art, literature, theater, and culture play in the struggle against dictatorship? How does your struggle in the late 1980s compare to today's efforts in the internet age?

In Poland, student alternative theater in the 1970s played a pivotal role in shaping attitudes toward independence and rebellion, or at the very least, in providing an alternative to the official narrative. The festivals associated with this theater were formative events for students during the 1970s and 1980s, serving as significant cultural and ideological touchpoints.

The environment surrounding the future "KARTA" was closely linked with the "Teatr Ósmego Dnia" (The Eighth Day Theatre) from Poznań, one of the most renowned theater groups of that era. Just before the imposition of martial law, "KARTA’s" leader, Zbigniew Gluza, was in the process of completing a book about this theater. The book utilized a method of source compilation, drawing on fragments of actors’ performances, letters, poems, and statements. During martial law, the theater also adapted to the circumstances by moving "underground," with performances being held in churches and private homes.

Underground printing houses in Poland not only published political and opposition writings but also fiction, which was scarce in communist Poland. For instance, the poems of Polish poet Czesław Miłosz, who won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1980 but had not been published in Poland since his emigration in the 1950s, were among the works disseminated. Additionally, cassettes featuring alternative music by rebel singers were produced. Satirical art also flourished during this period, including drawings, satirical cabarets, and alternative street art. Satire and ridicule of the authoritarian regime became powerful tools in the struggle against it, effectively challenging and undermining the tyrannical rule.

In the 1980s, disseminating texts or drawings was a significant challenge. Only materials printed in large quantities could reach a broad audience, making paper a "strategic" commodity. As paper was unavailable in stores, underground printing houses often relied on stolen paper. Telephone conversations were wiretapped, making it difficult to organize meetings and coordinate activities.

In the era of computers, mobile phones, and the Internet, disseminating materials—such as texts, information, images, and appeals—and organizing people has become significantly easier. However, this convenience brings its own set of challenges, including the proliferation of fake news, deep fakes, disinformation, manipulation of recipients, and the spread of panic. Issues like fake accounts and cyberattacks also pose risks. Furthermore, people accustomed to seamless communication may find themselves vulnerable if authorities decide to disrupt communication channels, as seen during Poland's martial law when mobile networks and the Internet were blocked.

- When the Soviet Union collapsed and its satellite Eastern Bloc countries were freed, was there a sense in Polish society that there might be attempts to reverse these changes in one form or another? Has the country begun to strengthen in various directions, particularly in terms of rethinking historical memory, to effectively resist such processes in the future? What are your thoughts on today's current events, including Putin's aggression in Ukraine and the threat to Europe, including Poland?

I believe that in Poland, we were not adequately prepared for the possibility of communism's return. After the fall of communism, signaled by the Polish Round Table Talks and the first partially free elections in 1989, which facilitated a peaceful transition of power from the weakened communists to the post-Solidarity forces, there was a prevailing sense of complete victory.

The first warning sign of potential setbacks was the rise of former communists to power, notably marked by the election of Aleksander Kwaśniewski as President in 1995, who defeated Lech Wałęsa, the legendary leader of “Solidarity.” Despite these concerns, this government ultimately proved to be favorable. Under the leadership of former communist Prime Minister Leszek Miller and President Kwaśniewski, Poland made significant progress by joining NATO and the European Union. These developments indicated a positive trajectory, with advancements in building democracy, safeguarding human and civil rights, and addressing historical grievances. No substantial obstacles were encountered during this period.

The first legal issue of “KARTA” was published in 1990. It became a historical quarterly dealing with documenting communist crimes without the slightest problem. We established Ośrodek KARTA (The KARTA Centre) and launched large-scale projects documenting the victims of Stalinist terror against Polish citizens in the USSR and under Soviet occupation on Polish territories, as well as victims of domestic communists.

The primary issue, or rather an obstacle, was the lack of substantial accountability for those responsible for martial law, including the individuals who ordered the shooting of miners and other perpetrators of communist crimes. Additionally, the vetting process for former secret collaborators of the special services was insufficient. This "unfinished vetting" significantly divided the former opposition and remained a contentious issue in the transition period.

However, the rise of the right-wing in Poland in 2015 appeared more threatening for the country. This period saw growing problems with historical interpretation, as the right-wing government adopted a nationalistic, xenophobic, and intolerant approach. This included exclusionary views, such as the belief that "a true Pole is a Catholic," and a historical narrative that emphasized Poland's role as either a heroic figure or an innocent victim.

From 2015 to 2023, Poland witnessed the first stage of the dismantling of its democracy. This period was marked by a retreat from civil rights and freedoms, the erosion of civil society, the plundering of public assets, the degradation of the education system, and a deterioration in relations with neighboring countries and the European Union. At one point, there was even a threat of "Polexit," reflecting concerns about Poland's potential exit from the EU.

Fortunately, the elections on October 15, 2023, resulted in a victory for forces opposed to the right-wing government in Poland. This shift brings hope, but there remains a concern about the rising influence of right-wing movements in other countries.

In Poland, there is significant historical resentment related to the tragic events of 1943, when Ukrainians committed atrocities against Poles, followed by retaliatory actions against Ukrainians. Despite this historical context, Poland condemns the invasion of Ukraine as a terrible act of barbarity and is dedicated to supporting Ukraine. There is concern over Putin's imperialist ambitions, which are seen as targeting smaller countries like Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Moldova. Poland places its faith in the strength of alliances, particularly NATO and American support, and is apprehensive about the potential consequences if Putin's ally, Trump, were to win the U.S. presidency.

- The government of Georgia recently enacted a similar law as in Russia regarding “Foreign Agents”, triggering one of the most substantial protests in the country's history over the past 30 years. As we can see, the Kremlin is actively trying to push the initiation of similar laws in neighboring regions, such as Kyrgyzstan, Georgia etc. What parallels would you draw with the law that has been in force for 12 years in Russia, and what are its implications for other countries? Is this part of the Kremlin's goal of re-colonizing countries?

The introduction of the "foreign agents" law is indeed a death to society in Georgia and other countries. I witnessed its impact on the Memorial Society in Russia. This law, introduced in 2012, began with minor harassment, administrative penalties, and inspections. Over the years, this escalated to the dissolution of Memorial through a court ruling, the confiscation of their headquarters and bank accounts, and searches of their members' offices and homes. In October 2022, Memorial was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize alongside Belarusian Viasna and the Ukrainian Center for Civil Liberties. Today, most Memorial members are scattered in exile in countries like France, Germany, Poland, Czechia, and Israel, while some remain in Russian prisons or are awaiting their uncertain fate.

Many believe that the announcement of the dissolution of Memorial in December 2021 was a significant early sign of the impending war. Memorial played a crucial role in exposing Putin's crimes during the Chechen wars, and its elimination was seen as a way to remove a key witness to potential crimes in Ukraine.

KARTA also writes about Georgia, and you are planning to dedicate several editions to issues of Georgian history. One of these is the 1924 anti-Soviet uprising. Why did you become interested in this project, and why do you think it is important for Poles to learn about this history?

Last year, representatives of the KARTA Centre presented our publications at the Tbilisi International Book Festival and established a collaborative partnership with IDFI. During the event, KARTA’s delegates introduced their methodologies and offered to share their experiences in historical documentation. We particularly emphasized the need to address Stalinism, noting that the ongoing cult of Stalin in Georgia may stem from a lack of awareness about the crimes Stalin committed against various nations, including Georgia itself. It was therefore natural to focus on the 1924 anti-Soviet uprising and to explore this topic using the established methods of KARTA.

Many years ago, KARTA compiled an international dictionary of dissident movements spanning 24 countries, including those of the former Soviet Union and Georgia. There has always been a substantial Georgian diaspora in Poland, and we are keen to explore its history. This aspect is particularly interesting for Poles, who hold a deep appreciation for Georgia and its rich cultural heritage.

- In conclusion, what are your aspirations for the future, and how do you envision developments in Georgia and elsewhere?

In June 2022, KARTA inaugurated a new facility in Warsaw named "WITRYNA Domu Wschodniego". This initiative was a direct response to the liquidation of Memorial, the outbreak of the war in Ukraine, and the arrival of thousands of Ukrainian war refugees in Poland, as well as Russian war opponents and Belarusian dissidents. The facility aims to foster social mobilization against Eastern authoritarian regimes.

At "WITRYNA Domu Wschodniego," we are establishing a library featuring materials in the national languages of various diasporas and compiling document archives from their respective countries. The facility hosts a range of events organized by these diaspora communities, including discussion meetings, film screenings, theater performances, workshops, and opposition roundtables. The Georgian diaspora also has a dedicated space, with a growing collection of books and documents. Additionally, Mondays are reserved for organized meetings facilitated by the Georgian curator.

The Polish Round Table negotiations took place in Warsaw, Poland, from February to April 1989. These talks were initiated by the government to address escalating social unrest and involved discussions with the banned Solidarity trade union and other opposition groups. The goal was to defuse tensions and find a peaceful resolution to the country's political crisis.

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